Congress, GOP & Prostitutes, News
Mormons.
Any reader of this news and opinion web site knows mine on this particular subject (can you say, “cult?”) but it would appear that with the successful passage of California’s anti gay marriage initiative, some lines were crossed.
Big Mormon bucks paid for the campaign to pass Proposition 8. Now it’s time to examine the source and handling of the scratch the Mormon church is flush with.
StopAllMonsters is calling for a boycott of the Huntington Hotel group.
…first up on the Mormon boycott list is Brent Andrus. Brent runs a few hotels, called the Courtyard Marriott, Fairfield Inn Marriott, Residence Inn Marriott and the Spring Hill Suites Marriott.
Please do not do business with these 14 hotels.
And why is the so-called church allowed to collect and spend money in campaigns and still keep its tax-exempt status? Because we haven’t demanded otherwise.
lds501(c)3 can help you file a complaint with the IRS seeking to revoke the church’s exemption. The site’s larger goal is to clarify the tax-exempt status of any church that contributes substantial funds in the political arena.
Topics: Congress, GOP & Prostitutes, News
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints didn’t pay a dime toward Prop 8. All that was donated was given by individual members. In fact, Yes on Prop 8 gained 6 million dollars LESS than no on Prop 8. In addition, Mormons make up less than 2% of the population of California. There are approximately 800,000 LDS out of a total population of approximately 34 million. Mormon voters were less than 5% of the yes vote. Clearly this was a choice made by the people of California. Please stop this abuse toward the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
K – Mormons all over the US, but especially in Utah, where they make up 62% of the population, were encouraged by the church to give to Yes on 8. These “saints” dutifully donated as much as $20 million to overturn the civil rights of California citizens.
Short of murder, there is no “abuse” worse than taking away civil rights. Mormons were stupid not to consider the fact that there might be repercussions for such a heinous act. The Mormon “brand” is about to take a big hit, just for starters.
Whining and portraying yourselves as victims won’t help you. And you shouldn’t count on the right wing Christians and others who participated with you in this fraud for support. They think LDS is a bizarre, blasphemous cult, and that its members are every bit as hellbound as gay people.
And btw, 2% of 34 million is 680,000.
wow, did you not read K’s comments at all? Yes on eight made less than No. They made less money. They do have church members all over the country but what about gay rights supporters? Are you telling me they don’t have any, anywhere? Not even in high places? Are you telling me there are no rich homosexuals out there? Or are you just saying they did not want to contribute to there fellow homosexual friends? No, both sides had an equal oppertunity to gather money and put out campaigns and rallies. So the church was organized? That seemed to help. But you need to read the fine print and the statistics, the yes on 8 would not have passed if black and latino supporters did not come out to support Obama. So, I would say get off the LDS’s case. This was an emotional hit to both sides. But we live in a country where the american people can decide and they did, not only in one state but three.
Let’s say there was a proposition on the ballot in Utah that would take away Mormons’ right to wear magic underwear. How would Mormons feel if thousands of gay people from California donated $20 million to advertise and promote the prop using lies and distortions?
I understand madison. But do you realize that the mormon people have had a lot of the same struggles as the gay community? Not every one is gay, but there have been cases of persecution to those who have come out. Not everyone is mormon but there have been many cases of persecution and rejection to those who have said they are mormon. In some cases many gays have been killed after coming out. They have struggled for rights and freedoms. Did you know the mormon community has had many people go after them to kill them because of their beliefs. There was even an extermination sent out towards the mormons signed by the president of the united states, after there were false testimonies of anti-mormons who said that the mormons were starting a war. Interesting. Like most humans, the members of the church made ready to defend but there soon after left the united states to go to an unclaimed territory at the time. That place was Utah. After being there the governement still went in after them to try to destroy them. All of this happened during a time they were supposed to have freedom of religion and instead of government leaders talking to church leaders they attacked them. Now mormons live in pretty peaceful times, but the road was not easy. I don’t recall the gay community having an extermination sent out upon them but I don’t know everything, and though the gay community has rights and I believe they should be able to marry, it should not be at the expense of others rights, especially religions. And especially it should not take away the rights or put rights on the line of groups of people who have actually had to die, or be killed, or slaughtered, or slain to finally recieve the rights they have and deserve too. This is a sensitive topic to both parties, so let’s not be ignorant to the pain both sides will or would experience.
Talk about telling only one side of the story, Carlos. The history of the Mormons is steeped in blood, almost all of it spilled by them. I don’t recall any gay people going on killing rampages because God told them to in order to defend homosexuality. Your analogy is bogus, as is your cult.
Two words for you, Carlos: Mountain Meadows. We’re all familiar with the history of the LDS, and I have read the Book of Mormon cover to cover, so don’t waste our bandwidth playing the rightwing victim card.
You are correct that you are tragically uninformed about gay history. Tens of thousands of gay people were exterminated in Europe by the Nazis, and when U.S. and Allied forces liberated the concentration camps, instead of letting the gay internees go free, they were transferred into prisons run by the Allies.
But the main thing you need to know is that the persecution and extermination of gay people is not just historical — it’s still going on. Gay people like Matthew Shepherd, Ryan Skipper, 13-year-old Larry King and others have been hunted down and killed just because of who they are.
If anything, as a recently persecuted group, Mormons ought to be more accepting of minorities, not persecutors of them.
Here’s what the people who voted for this hateful measure don’t understand. The California Constitution contains an “equal protection” clause that orders the state to provide the same rights to all citizens. This clause is fundamental to the constitution. Without it, hundreds of rights extended to minorities and women would no longer have the force of law behind them.
Earlier this year, three Republican and one Democratic Supreme Court judges found that marriage was a civil (not religious) right and so it had be provided to gay people, too.
Prop 8 has now overturned the equal protection clause of the constitution. The California Constitution now says, “all California citizens are equal, except for the 3.4 million gay people who live here.”
By definition, an “equal” protection clause that contains an exception is rendered null.
What blacks, latinos, Mormons and other minorities may not have realized when they were suckered into voting their bigotry instead of their own interests is that Prop 8 could well end their protected status, too, because it sets a precedent for restricting the rights of other minorities.
I understand what the both of you are saying and completely understand your points. The point I was getting across is how much of a sensitive issue this is for both parties and how much both parties have to lose. Znd you know the mormons did have a rough time too, not always by the government but by mobs who would murder them. The would rape the women and kill the men and children. So actually I don’t know what you guys consider murder or slaughter but to me that meets the definition. Also there were many people who lied about mormons and still do today which has led them through rough territory. Now if you don’t see what they have gone through than that;s too bad. And if you don’t see why they wanted the proposition to pass is because of a lack of empathy. There are soooo many members of the church who love and have neighbors who are gay. Like I said before the real issue is to make sure that religion is protected too, the religion they have died for. There was nothing anywhere saying that churchs would be protected and allowed to keep their religious beliefs at any expense.
And actually the meadows massacre was a sad mistake that was note condone by the church and the leaders of the church at that time came out against that act. It was made by humans with poor judgment.
If you guys think I am against gays then you are wrong and I feel sorry that-that is the only side you want to see. Like I said before I think everyone should have rights, but not at the expense of everyother person in the united states. Proposition 8 was flawed. I think they need a new one a proposition with protection for both sides.
Carlos, you’re just flat wrong about Prop 8. There was nothing the Mormons needed protection from. If Prop 8 had lost, no churches would have been affected. That was a lie told by the Yes on 8 folks to fool ignorant people into voting for it. It worked.
Marriage is not primarily a religious function. That’s another lie. The fact is, marriage is a civil right that is guaranteed by the government. Yes, weddings do take place in churches sometimes, but people can also be married in city halls or at the beach or in a back yard. The venue is irrelevant but one thing is certain: everyone who gets married, even those who marry in a church, have to get a license from the government. The proof that marriage is a government, not religious, function is this: When couples seek divorce, they go to court, not to church.
If Prop 8 had failed it would have had no – zero, zippo, nada – effect on any member of any church in California.
The Bible is filled with sins much more heinous than being gay — including lying, which is listed in the Ten Commandments.
The fact that Mormons had a tough time over a century ago makes it even more horrifying that they would persecute gay people now. If they’re ancestor underwent such heinous experiences, why would they so gleefully persecute another group that has been murdered, raped and ostracized?
The Mountain Meadows massacre happened under the command of Issac Haight and John D. Lee, who were leaders of the Mormon militia. It was a planned attack, so it cannot be accurately called a “mistake.” They and their men 120 slaughtered unarmed American citizens — every man, woman and child over the age of eight. What makes this a particularly evil and bloodthirsty act is the fact that they killed the Americans after the Americans had surrendered. Lee was eventually executed for his role.
What the Mormons have done in California this year is as shameful in its own way as the Mountain Meadows massacre. They have revoked the civil rights of millions of Californians, and there will be consequences.
You know what is interesting, I love having conversations and sharing my views with others, but right now instead of you and I sharing views, you are attacking my comments with comments such as a lie or flat out wrong. I mean if you want to say you don’t agree that’s cool that’s fine we can agree to disagree but it sounds like you want to see no truth in what I have to say or share, that’s fine too, but trust me that wont hel you rotest against prop 8. You want others to practice what they preach, then that should be a judgment you hold yourself too as well.
My only question is, are you one hundred ercent sure that there would be no religions effected? I mean are you 100 percent positive. Because I think being gay would really hold up in court. It is not a religion, it is not a race, it is not a gender, and to many it is not just a sexuality. Although there has been a lot of fantastic finds from scientist, they still have not determined for sure if is something you can be born with. That being said I think it would hold up in court very well.
I feel sorry that you don’t want to see that I am unbiased and on both sides but just because I don’t think no on 8 should just attack the mormons, you have labeled me as one and have decided to kee your eyes closed. What if I were to tell you I am gay. That would be a shock but no I can’t be because I need to be one sidecd in order to know the truth, right?
Ahh, yes, I know I’ve seen this plot somewhere before. It goes like this: lose war, feel angry, blame someone, unite using rhetoric defaming scapegoat, place scapegoat in concentration camps and exterminate them, lose another war. Looks like the homosexual community is now moving willingly through stage 4. Watch out Mormons, stage 5 isn’t pretty for you.
Actually Carlos I was guessing you’re a gay Mormon.
Carlos – I’m 1 million percent sure that if Prop 8 had lost, no churches would have been affected. I am 100 million percent certain that Christian leaders lied about this in the Yes on 8 campaign.
Here’s proof: When the California Supreme Court (not voters or the legislature) overturned the law preventing blacks and whites from marrying in 1948, white racist churches were not forced to marry mixed couples. They still aren’t.
No one can force any church to marry anyone. Period. But, Carlos, think logically: Why would a gay couple want to get married in a church where the Christians hate them?
You may be interested to know that the case in 1948 in which the California Supreme Court overturned laws against mixed-race marriages was Perez v. Sharp, and the couple involved was Andrea Perez, a Mexican-American, and Sylvester Davis, an African American. Until their case was appealed to the state supreme court, California law stated that “… no license may be issued authorizing the marriage of a white person with a Negro, mulatto, Mongolian or member of the Malay race.” The California Supreme Court ruled that this law was wrong, saying that marriage is a fundamental right and that laws restricting that right must not be based solely on prejudice.
What Prop 8 supporters say is the opposite of California law: They say marriage is not a fundamental right. It is a special right only given to those privileged to have been born heterosexual, and that California law must restrict this right for no other reason than the fact that millions of Christians hate gays.
Does that sound even remotely like the California we live in? Another question: Does that sound like a Christianity that Jesus would recognize?
What you and others miss is that now that they can discriminate against gays, they have precedent to discriminate against latinos, blacks and Asians. Think it can’t happen? Imagine if the Republicans take control of the state again. Remember Prop. 187 under Gov. Wilson. It was going to allow the Republican government to round up latino children in schools and ship them and their parents back south and prevent latinos with no IDs from getting care at hospitals etc. All of that can now be made legal if Dan Lungren, Tom McClintock, Darrell Issa and other “Christians” of their ilk ever regain power. They can say to the court, since the voters decided to restrict the rights of gays, we can restrict the rights of others.
Equal protection is the main building block of our state laws. Prop 8 has destroyed it. Any good American would not — will not — stand for one group taking away the civil rights of another group. Fairness and equality are fundamental to this country. Without them, we are nothing. There is no middle ground on this issue.
Dustin – Get real. The Nazis didn’t lose elections to the Jews. The Nazis won elections against other non-Jews resoundingly and then used that mandate to round up minorities, including Jews and gay people, and put them in concentration camps.
What is really sad is that no on 8 protester have already started the descrimination against blacks and latinos and others. At the protest in LA they were throwing out the N-word and black passer-bys. Ironically one of those guys walking by was a young gay black man, he said he couldn’t believe what he was hearing and belive me he must have been confused. Other blacks at that same protest also recieved threats not to show up in west hollywood. If the racism is gonna come back, I don’t think it will start with the churches especially now that the churchs have a brotherhood with those who helped and supported them during the campaign. Look, not everything is black and white. You are asking people to change their minds about something that has not entered their consept maybe since they were born. You can’t just do that at a drop of the hat. You can’t just go through and force people to start believeing you. What if a scientist came out and said that you are not really gay and they could prove it. Would you really believe it, even if it were true? Come on it probably would be hard, and most likely you wouldn’t would you. That is all I am saying, take into consideration that you are not the only side of the matter. You can’t just change peoples beliefs instantly or get mad right away if they don’t agree. That is how we truly fail in america. If you don’t want people to shove their ideas in your face, you better take a close look at how you are handling this situation. I believe in equality, but I don’t belive in force and I don’t believe in poor sportsmanship.
So homophobia is okay but racism is bad — and you believe in equality? That makes no sense. Besides, I live in West Hollywood. This is one of the most open-minded and welcoming communities on the planet. Nobody with any sense blames voters who believed the lies in the ads created by the Christian leaders.
The poor sportsmanship started with the lies in the ads. Without the lies, your side would have lost. It was not a fair win, and it will be challenged until it is revoked.
This is just like Prop 187. It was motivated out of hatred, based on bad law, and successfully promoted with lies. Even though it passed with 58.8 percent of the vote, the campaign for Prop 187 made the Republicans look like petty, vindictive haters, an image the California GOP still has today, which is why they can’t win state elections. (Even with help from the Christians’ hateful campaign for Prop 8, the GOP lost seats in both houses of the legislature.)
Thankfully, Prop 187 was overturned in court. If there is justice, Prop 8 will be found to be bad law, and the Mormons will be as discredited by their support for it as California Republicans were over Prop 187.
Point of order, Jon. You’re lumping Mormons in with Christians.
Mormons were the largest single donor group, but the deceptive ads were produced by Christian Republican operatives.
Thank you for some really good points that you have brought to my attention and have shared with me. I am happy to have shared my opinion as well. The only thing Jon, were you reading what I wrote? Do you not get that I don’t belive in homophobia, or racism, or descrimination? Those are the only things you bring up. I read an article today written by a gay man where he said that he understands that they can’t just ask christians to change their beliefs or set them aside, but that it is something that will come in time. Jon, all of the love and peace and tolerance the no on 8 campaign talks about does not shine through you. And that is a shame. There are so many great gay men out there. There are many great lesbian women and mormons and blacks and latinos and asian and indians and europeans…. But it just seems like all you want to see is the bad in people or at least the side that does not agree with you. And that I am sad for. That is the main reason we are all having a hard time living together is because we have no empathy one for another. Like in the case with many mormons towards gays and many gays toward mormons. Lets agree to disagree. We live in a country of democracy. And the people have spoken. But if you want their vote or help next time, this is not how you are gonna get it. No on 8 preaches love and tolerance and peace. Yes the gay community has lost their fight on 8. But now is the time to shine and live up to what has been preached. I hope you have read this and know that there are no hard feelings in my heart towards you. I wish you the best in life and hope you are happy with you new husband. I hope you two can keep your marriage. And I promise you, if you guys reach out, you will have a happier life. Don’t reach out with stress and anger because that is contagious, but with love, peace, and tolerance. Take care. I am signing out.
I’m still laughing at madison’s comment. You are wanting to stop mormons from wearing a garment UNDER their clothes, where no one sees it, and it doesn’t bother anyone. haha. Talk about focusing energies at the wrong place. Why don’t you start with fat, nasty slobs that wear thong bikinis at the beach, or spandex. Now that should be a crime! Bigotry isn’t normally funny, but that made me laugh.
Umm, Laughing. It was supposed to be funny. I know conservatives are born without senses of humor, so, yes, you were supposed to laugh at that.
Sheesh.
Good. Mission accomplished. More bigotry on the retort. Good job! Some people end up with successful careers with attitudes like that. Good luck!
I researched the contribution process and there is no way for any of you to know how much was contributed by anyone….
And anyone that would donate money because your church asked you to, is an idiot. And those of you who believe these mormans did this are even bigger idiots.
Click here to search.
Click here to see an example of search results. This one shows all donors from California.
- Editors
At least the Mormoms are peacful and don’t do violence or make bullying demonstrations; but hey anyone has a right to protect themselves or should you just stand in a corner while you are robbed and or violated? Just a thought.
If you cannot concede that others have a right to say what they like then you ca n’t either.
Gay marriage has never been an issue while it remains a marriage conducted by and between gay people under their own gay ‘marriage’ ceremonies and such.It becomes an issue when they want to intermingle it with the religious issue of Marriage between heterosexuals.
Does nt anyone realize that this is not only seen as undermining heterosexual Marriage it IS jUST THAT; i.e, a deliberate act to subvert and undermine heterosexual Marriage and the Sanctity of that Marriage under God.
If all you want is the rights that Married people have then you should simply set up your own Gay religion and campaign to have these ‘partnerships’ sanctioned by Law.
Why you need the Law aspect of Marriage at all beats me anyway.Marriage is made under the LAW OF GOD not under the Law of men; and besides if you want a partnership ‘contract’ then go ahead and make one; no one is stopping you..
So the Mormons donated time and money to define marriage between a man and a woman.
Who donated to the ‘No’ side of the campaign? The #1 contributor was the California Teachers Association. That’s right, the teachers used their union dues to push gay marriage. Why?
Maybe Massachusetts could help us understand.
http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1815825713
To see a video of Perkins being nailed for repeatedly lying, see this story, Savage Vs. Psycho: Dan Savage Debates Prop 8 with Professional Homophobe Tony Perkins.
- Editors
I’m curious to know what “lies” the Yes on 8 campaign used?
Everything I’ve heard has been verified by neutral sources, on the other had the ‘No’ campaign can not verify their arguments.
What is truly nauseating here is that Frank Schubert has a gay sister. There is no better example of true conservative “family values” than this. Schubert sold out the civil rights of his own sister for 30 pieces of gold that he collected from liars and bigots who hate her because of who she is.
None of the lies in the Yes on 8 campaign were “verified by neutral sources.”
- Editors
hi..few words 4 ya from a former CNN Headline News ND(news director/radio).. get your facts straight(no pun gays, i mean guys and gals)..
1. The California voters DO NOT what traditional marriage redefined, thats 98% leaving 2% LDS private contributors.. the Church is part of a Christian Coalition, unlike Obama…we are definitive of WHO we are and WHERE we are going and WHAT we believe.. it doesn’t change minute to minute.
2. In this country, last I checked, we can contribute as individuals and organizations to ANY proposition we want, without fear of retaliation by small interest groups like the gay political community. Picketing Church’s, making up lies, cursing at Mormons.. is not going to help us love ya’s more…it’s gonna make you look like freaks and weirdo’s.. if you want us to understand, use love, compassion, patience, honesty and respect. I might be sarcastic (I’m a Jew/Mormon from NY with gay family) My fam is not interested in politics, just finding true love, not trying to change everyone into their version of “desire” and “normal”.(I’m talking about my gay relatives) Point being.. stop crying about your loss of prop 8, and start serving your community, making a difference in a childs life, or a senior citizen or the world economy.. guess what.. .the Mormon Church has been doing the previously mentioned things, pouring millions of dollars into philanthropy and medical aid throughout the world.. why not “wake up, and do something more gay community..then dream of your gay america”.. Try to serve and help others
You’re just plain wrong, kittywamo. Get your facts straight. Mormons donated nearly 50% of the funds for Prop 8, according to Yes on 8 itself. The Prop won with only 52% of the vote. (But there are still over 1 million votes that have not been counted, and now there is word that votes may have been stolen by the Yes on 8 side.)
Also, there is no right in this country to donate secretly to political causes. Donors to Prop 8 knew when they sent money that their names would be made public by the government. Every donor had to fill out a form with name and address, in full knowledge that their identities had to be public information.
Just as surely as they had a right to donate, their opponents have a right guaranteed by the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution to criticize them for it.
The Mormon Church has revealed itself this year to be a hate group trying to suck up to the evangelical right. All the good works the church might do from now on won’t ever disguise the ugly, vengeful face it has revealed to millions of Americans who’d never heard of the church until now.
If you’re really into love and peace, you need to spend your time trying to drag your fellow Mormons into the 21st century, rather than wasting your time here trying to goad gay people into giving up their civil rights — because that is never going to happen.
Actually kittywaymo is right.
if your group jon is so into love and peace you should show it. All of your responses in these blogs have been rude and unsympathetic. If mormons were that intersted in being in politics they would have told all the members to cote for Romney and that did not happen. Look, you need to know that the standard of truth has been erected; No un hallowed hand can stop the work from progressing; persecutions may rage, mobs may combine, armies may assemble, calumny may defame, but the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly, and independent, till it has penetrated every continent, visited every clime, swept every country, and sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished, and the great Jehovah shall say the work is done.
It’s not about hate jon, it is about protecting rights, and mormons and blacks and latinos….have rights as well.
What’s wrong with mormons?