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	<title>Comments on: Did Mormons Join Prop 8 Fight to Woo Christian Right after Romney, FLDS Debacles?</title>
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	<description>News and Opinion on Politics and Media</description>
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		<title>By: Chet</title>
		<link>http://www.pensitoreview.com/2008/11/18/did-mormons-join-prop-8-fight-to-win-christians/comment-page-2/#comment-746448</link>
		<dc:creator>Chet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2012 20:41:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pensitoreview.com/2008/11/18/did-mormons-join-prop-8-fight-to-win-christians/#comment-746448</guid>
		<description>Did Romney&#039;s Bain Plunder Howard Hughes?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did Romney&#8217;s Bain Plunder Howard Hughes?</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://www.pensitoreview.com/2008/11/18/did-mormons-join-prop-8-fight-to-win-christians/comment-page-2/#comment-634612</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 22:35:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pensitoreview.com/2008/11/18/did-mormons-join-prop-8-fight-to-win-christians/#comment-634612</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re protesting too much, Max. Whatever it&#039;s true cause, obsessing about other people&#039;s sex lives shows emotional immaturity.

I don&#039;t speak for any gay people. I&#039;m speaking for me. In the scheme of things, I don&#039;t know that many gay people beyond casual acquaintances -- and I live in West Hollywood. The vast majority of my friends happen to be straight, because what other people do in bed is is not on my list of criteria for seeking new friends.

The fact that you thought I&#039;m an ambassador from Gayville might explain why you thought I would just take your insults and smears politely and ask for more. That&#039;s the same exaggerated sense of entitlement that Mormons had about Prop 8 -- thinking you could fund a hate campaign but not suffer retaliation.

Good luck with the prophets and all that. I sincerely hope we get the opportunity to vote on restricting Mormons&#039; civil rights some day, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re protesting too much, Max. Whatever it&#8217;s true cause, obsessing about other people&#8217;s sex lives shows emotional immaturity.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t speak for any gay people. I&#8217;m speaking for me. In the scheme of things, I don&#8217;t know that many gay people beyond casual acquaintances &#8212; and I live in West Hollywood. The vast majority of my friends happen to be straight, because what other people do in bed is is not on my list of criteria for seeking new friends.</p>
<p>The fact that you thought I&#8217;m an ambassador from Gayville might explain why you thought I would just take your insults and smears politely and ask for more. That&#8217;s the same exaggerated sense of entitlement that Mormons had about Prop 8 &#8212; thinking you could fund a hate campaign but not suffer retaliation.</p>
<p>Good luck with the prophets and all that. I sincerely hope we get the opportunity to vote on restricting Mormons&#8217; civil rights some day, too.</p>
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		<title>By: Max</title>
		<link>http://www.pensitoreview.com/2008/11/18/did-mormons-join-prop-8-fight-to-win-christians/comment-page-1/#comment-634596</link>
		<dc:creator>Max</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 20:39:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pensitoreview.com/2008/11/18/did-mormons-join-prop-8-fight-to-win-christians/#comment-634596</guid>
		<description>You always have an interesting choice of words Jon.  According to you everyone who voted for the president in California, Arizona, and Florida must be gay right.  To be obsessed would be to participate in the gay vote right?  No on 8, yes on 8, they must all be gay too.  Oh excuse me Gay or closeted gay.  Jon that is like saying those obsessed with murderers theives and robbers must be either murderers theives or robbers or people who are in the closet about it.  I guess that means all of the police and the CSI units and such are all murderers...wait something is wrong with that isn&#039;t it.  
You know, I am going to just say if you are obsessed with mormonism it means two things either you are a mormon or you are in the closet about wanting to be one.  Wow jon, all you have to do know is get baptized because you must be wanting to be a mormon!!!  Way to go!  
If I wanted to learn about muslisms would I talk to baptists?  If I wanted to know about mormons would I talk to a jew? If I wanted to learn math would I get math classes from an english instructor who only teaches english?  No I wouldn&#039;t.  If you really want to know about mormons jon go to the church talk to members without first attacking them with hate.  I have talked to you and others in hopes to get to know the gay community, but you have not given a very good impression at all.  All I see is selfishness and after the election I have seen bitterness and hate.  I was silly to think there was any decency in you.  You have proven me wrong.  You have been rude and hateful from the beginning.  
Jon you seem happy.   Obviously you are surrounded by happy people too.  Have a good life.  The mormons teach that living Gods ways will bring you eternal happiness, because that is what God has taught.  I testify to you that the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints is the church of God here on earth.  There are real prophets on the earth again who can help us to know Gods plan.  Each and everyone of us can pray to God ourselves and learn what he has to say to us.  This is true.  You too can talk to God and he will talk to you.  He can show anyone how to live.  The pleasures of this earth last as long as this earth.  God has shown the way for happiness here on earth that will last through this life and into the life to come and into the eternities. I know this is true.  I have prayed about it and God has spoken to me.  He can speak to you, he is your loving heavenly father.  I testify of this in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You always have an interesting choice of words Jon.  According to you everyone who voted for the president in California, Arizona, and Florida must be gay right.  To be obsessed would be to participate in the gay vote right?  No on 8, yes on 8, they must all be gay too.  Oh excuse me Gay or closeted gay.  Jon that is like saying those obsessed with murderers theives and robbers must be either murderers theives or robbers or people who are in the closet about it.  I guess that means all of the police and the CSI units and such are all murderers&#8230;wait something is wrong with that isn&#8217;t it.<br />
You know, I am going to just say if you are obsessed with mormonism it means two things either you are a mormon or you are in the closet about wanting to be one.  Wow jon, all you have to do know is get baptized because you must be wanting to be a mormon!!!  Way to go!<br />
If I wanted to learn about muslisms would I talk to baptists?  If I wanted to know about mormons would I talk to a jew? If I wanted to learn math would I get math classes from an english instructor who only teaches english?  No I wouldn&#8217;t.  If you really want to know about mormons jon go to the church talk to members without first attacking them with hate.  I have talked to you and others in hopes to get to know the gay community, but you have not given a very good impression at all.  All I see is selfishness and after the election I have seen bitterness and hate.  I was silly to think there was any decency in you.  You have proven me wrong.  You have been rude and hateful from the beginning.<br />
Jon you seem happy.   Obviously you are surrounded by happy people too.  Have a good life.  The mormons teach that living Gods ways will bring you eternal happiness, because that is what God has taught.  I testify to you that the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints is the church of God here on earth.  There are real prophets on the earth again who can help us to know Gods plan.  Each and everyone of us can pray to God ourselves and learn what he has to say to us.  This is true.  You too can talk to God and he will talk to you.  He can show anyone how to live.  The pleasures of this earth last as long as this earth.  God has shown the way for happiness here on earth that will last through this life and into the life to come and into the eternities. I know this is true.  I have prayed about it and God has spoken to me.  He can speak to you, he is your loving heavenly father.  I testify of this in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://www.pensitoreview.com/2008/11/18/did-mormons-join-prop-8-fight-to-win-christians/comment-page-1/#comment-634527</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 14:07:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pensitoreview.com/2008/11/18/did-mormons-join-prop-8-fight-to-win-christians/#comment-634527</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m sure Mormons would like to join a super-organization of religions to root out what they selectively perceive as immorality in America, as you suggest, but that is never going to happen.

The church could have raised $20 million to feed the hungry, clothe the poor or house the homeless. Instead, it raised half the money for a campaign of hatred built on lies and smears that stripped taxpaying Americans of equal rights. As a result, the church has millions of enemies now that it didn&#039;t have before. 

In joining the persecution of gays, Mormon leaders hoped to form alliances with the evangelicals -- the least tolerant of all Americans and the same group who rejected Mitt Romney because of his Mormonism in 2008 and whose antecedents in the 19th century tarred and feathered Mormon leaders and drove them from their towns. 

By appointing themselves to the morality police, Mormons have invited scrutiny of their own sordid past. Most Americans don&#039;t know about Mountain Meadows or about the actions by early Mormon leaders -- the abuse of children and women -- that incited the tarring and feathering. They don&#039;t know about the magic underwear, the &quot;spiritual&quot; polygamy that is still being practiced today and other beliefs and practices that will seem bizarre to normal people. Americans will learn about it all now, and when they do, all the work by church leaders over the past 50 years to mainstream Mormonism will be flushed away. 

But the choice was made, and there is no turning back. The persecuted have become the persecutors. Check your history books to see how that usually turns out.

Comparing gay marriage to drunk driving is ugly and offensive, but mainly it&#039;s illogical. My marriage has harmed no one. Quite the opposite in fact: It made our mothers, the rest of our families and our friends and their kids very happy that we could enjoy this right after 29 years together. 

Finally, Max, only two groups of people are obsessed with gay issues. Gay people and closeted gay people. People who are comfortable and secure about their own sexuality are not threatened by the sexuality of others. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sure Mormons would like to join a super-organization of religions to root out what they selectively perceive as immorality in America, as you suggest, but that is never going to happen.</p>
<p>The church could have raised $20 million to feed the hungry, clothe the poor or house the homeless. Instead, it raised half the money for a campaign of hatred built on lies and smears that stripped taxpaying Americans of equal rights. As a result, the church has millions of enemies now that it didn&#8217;t have before. </p>
<p>In joining the persecution of gays, Mormon leaders hoped to form alliances with the evangelicals &#8212; the least tolerant of all Americans and the same group who rejected Mitt Romney because of his Mormonism in 2008 and whose antecedents in the 19th century tarred and feathered Mormon leaders and drove them from their towns. </p>
<p>By appointing themselves to the morality police, Mormons have invited scrutiny of their own sordid past. Most Americans don&#8217;t know about Mountain Meadows or about the actions by early Mormon leaders &#8212; the abuse of children and women &#8212; that incited the tarring and feathering. They don&#8217;t know about the magic underwear, the &#8220;spiritual&#8221; polygamy that is still being practiced today and other beliefs and practices that will seem bizarre to normal people. Americans will learn about it all now, and when they do, all the work by church leaders over the past 50 years to mainstream Mormonism will be flushed away. </p>
<p>But the choice was made, and there is no turning back. The persecuted have become the persecutors. Check your history books to see how that usually turns out.</p>
<p>Comparing gay marriage to drunk driving is ugly and offensive, but mainly it&#8217;s illogical. My marriage has harmed no one. Quite the opposite in fact: It made our mothers, the rest of our families and our friends and their kids very happy that we could enjoy this right after 29 years together. </p>
<p>Finally, Max, only two groups of people are obsessed with gay issues. Gay people and closeted gay people. People who are comfortable and secure about their own sexuality are not threatened by the sexuality of others.</p>
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		<title>By: Max</title>
		<link>http://www.pensitoreview.com/2008/11/18/did-mormons-join-prop-8-fight-to-win-christians/comment-page-1/#comment-634444</link>
		<dc:creator>Max</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 05:35:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pensitoreview.com/2008/11/18/did-mormons-join-prop-8-fight-to-win-christians/#comment-634444</guid>
		<description>Hey I am just responding to a blog. Sharing my opinion about opinions shared. How about you, why are you so obsessed with mormons?  Can you imagine what would have happened if all the other religions were organized too.  Could you imagine the difference the no on 8 could have made if they were more together and organized.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey I am just responding to a blog. Sharing my opinion about opinions shared. How about you, why are you so obsessed with mormons?  Can you imagine what would have happened if all the other religions were organized too.  Could you imagine the difference the no on 8 could have made if they were more together and organized.</p>
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		<title>By: Max</title>
		<link>http://www.pensitoreview.com/2008/11/18/did-mormons-join-prop-8-fight-to-win-christians/comment-page-1/#comment-634443</link>
		<dc:creator>Max</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 05:33:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pensitoreview.com/2008/11/18/did-mormons-join-prop-8-fight-to-win-christians/#comment-634443</guid>
		<description>Hey I am just responding to a blog. Sharing my opinion about opinions shared.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey I am just responding to a blog. Sharing my opinion about opinions shared.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://www.pensitoreview.com/2008/11/18/did-mormons-join-prop-8-fight-to-win-christians/comment-page-1/#comment-634408</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 01:49:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pensitoreview.com/2008/11/18/did-mormons-join-prop-8-fight-to-win-christians/#comment-634408</guid>
		<description>Max, why are you and your friends so obsessed with gay marriage?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Max, why are you and your friends so obsessed with gay marriage?</p>
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		<title>By: Max</title>
		<link>http://www.pensitoreview.com/2008/11/18/did-mormons-join-prop-8-fight-to-win-christians/comment-page-1/#comment-634407</link>
		<dc:creator>Max</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 01:44:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pensitoreview.com/2008/11/18/did-mormons-join-prop-8-fight-to-win-christians/#comment-634407</guid>
		<description>un-American?  America is about life and freedom.  The pilgrims left their countries to come here and have freedom.  You give up freedoms, natural freedoms, with sexual activities with members of the same sex.  That is what is sad to me.  No I believe this country is so focused on freedoms that we have forgotten the meaning.  We have traffic laws, why?  You are free to live by them or not.  If you disobey those laws things can happen to where you lose your freedoms.  You cross over the double yellow and you might hit another car.  You could die or be disabled, you gave up your freedom right there to live a normal healthy life.  But what happens in your house doesn&#039;t effect my house right?  Yeah tell that to the thousands of families who have lost loved ones to drunk driving.  They didn&#039;t choose for their families to die from a drunk driver hitting them.  That drunk driver had the freedom to choose to drink and drive, we have laws against it but nobody is forcing them.  Yeah there are a lot of married couples that don&#039;t have kids because they don&#039;t want them.  The mormons, share with them the importants and beauty of offspring.  If the pilgrims were gay none of us would be here.  If the Native americans who once owned this land were gay none of us would be here.  If all the nations were homosexuals the world would end, because there would be no offspring!!  I don&#039;t know why that is confusing.
You deserve rights Jon.  But it is sad that you give up soooo many natural freedom through homosexuality.  But I mean kudos to you.  I am sure your children would love to choose their sexuality and be a part of this life but they never will because niether you nor your husband can have one.  Yeah, put science in the mix, the two of you will still never have a child that is from the both of you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>un-American?  America is about life and freedom.  The pilgrims left their countries to come here and have freedom.  You give up freedoms, natural freedoms, with sexual activities with members of the same sex.  That is what is sad to me.  No I believe this country is so focused on freedoms that we have forgotten the meaning.  We have traffic laws, why?  You are free to live by them or not.  If you disobey those laws things can happen to where you lose your freedoms.  You cross over the double yellow and you might hit another car.  You could die or be disabled, you gave up your freedom right there to live a normal healthy life.  But what happens in your house doesn&#8217;t effect my house right?  Yeah tell that to the thousands of families who have lost loved ones to drunk driving.  They didn&#8217;t choose for their families to die from a drunk driver hitting them.  That drunk driver had the freedom to choose to drink and drive, we have laws against it but nobody is forcing them.  Yeah there are a lot of married couples that don&#8217;t have kids because they don&#8217;t want them.  The mormons, share with them the importants and beauty of offspring.  If the pilgrims were gay none of us would be here.  If the Native americans who once owned this land were gay none of us would be here.  If all the nations were homosexuals the world would end, because there would be no offspring!!  I don&#8217;t know why that is confusing.<br />
You deserve rights Jon.  But it is sad that you give up soooo many natural freedom through homosexuality.  But I mean kudos to you.  I am sure your children would love to choose their sexuality and be a part of this life but they never will because niether you nor your husband can have one.  Yeah, put science in the mix, the two of you will still never have a child that is from the both of you.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://www.pensitoreview.com/2008/11/18/did-mormons-join-prop-8-fight-to-win-christians/comment-page-1/#comment-634400</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 00:31:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pensitoreview.com/2008/11/18/did-mormons-join-prop-8-fight-to-win-christians/#comment-634400</guid>
		<description>First, your facts are wrong. Post-election analysis has found that race was not the main factor behind Prop 8&#039;s passage -- it was education level. Well-educated people of all races voted against Prop 8, while people with little education voted for it. 

But your argument here just won&#039;t fly. Tens of millions American straight couples don&#039;t have children, and yet their marriages give them happiness and comfort. By your rationale, the government should rescind their marriage licenses because they&#039;re childless.

It is un-American to have one set of laws for straight people and another for gays. Nothing you can say can change that fact.


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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, your facts are wrong. Post-election analysis has found that race was not the main factor behind Prop 8&#8217;s passage &#8212; it was education level. Well-educated people of all races voted against Prop 8, while people with little education voted for it. </p>
<p>But your argument here just won&#8217;t fly. Tens of millions American straight couples don&#8217;t have children, and yet their marriages give them happiness and comfort. By your rationale, the government should rescind their marriage licenses because they&#8217;re childless.</p>
<p>It is un-American to have one set of laws for straight people and another for gays. Nothing you can say can change that fact.</p>
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		<title>By: Max</title>
		<link>http://www.pensitoreview.com/2008/11/18/did-mormons-join-prop-8-fight-to-win-christians/comment-page-1/#comment-634392</link>
		<dc:creator>Max</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 23:37:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pensitoreview.com/2008/11/18/did-mormons-join-prop-8-fight-to-win-christians/#comment-634392</guid>
		<description>Jon, no on 8 let their rights be taken away. You guys didn&#039;t go out to the minorities I have read all about it.  The minority groups got together to start their own no on 8 but without any help from the actual no on 8.  Prop 8 was something that took away your freedom to marry right?  Then why the heck did they not do more?  There are gays all over the world, did anyone ask them to help? 
The mormon leaders didn&#039;t ask the members to get together $20 million.  They asked them do donate money if they could.  That is what the members pulled together and did.  No on 8 had the same amount of time and even more resources.  
Look you missed what Mormons are Christians meant.  The mormons believe in something called the law of chastity.  Being chaste.  That is anything sexual is to be done in marriage.  There is one huge reason for that.  Because when a man has sex with a woman they have the potential to make a child.  and if they are married the chances of them staying together and raising the child together are greater.  Family is very important to the mormons.  Families that can grow and continue.  They can get married have children, and their children can later get married and have children, and their children will have children and so on and so forth.  A gay couple can never ever have children without scientific intervention!!!!  Jon you will never have a child with your husband.  That is what the mormons are fighting for.  They are pro life.  Colonies of gay men or gay women will only last as long as the oldest person living.  There joy ends in their partner and will never continue through the child they make with their partner because two gay people cannot have a child that carries both of their blood.  That is what they are fighting for Jon, their own family.  Just like you are.  Except when their mom and dad die the family will not end it iwill live on through their children.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jon, no on 8 let their rights be taken away. You guys didn&#8217;t go out to the minorities I have read all about it.  The minority groups got together to start their own no on 8 but without any help from the actual no on 8.  Prop 8 was something that took away your freedom to marry right?  Then why the heck did they not do more?  There are gays all over the world, did anyone ask them to help?<br />
The mormon leaders didn&#8217;t ask the members to get together $20 million.  They asked them do donate money if they could.  That is what the members pulled together and did.  No on 8 had the same amount of time and even more resources.<br />
Look you missed what Mormons are Christians meant.  The mormons believe in something called the law of chastity.  Being chaste.  That is anything sexual is to be done in marriage.  There is one huge reason for that.  Because when a man has sex with a woman they have the potential to make a child.  and if they are married the chances of them staying together and raising the child together are greater.  Family is very important to the mormons.  Families that can grow and continue.  They can get married have children, and their children can later get married and have children, and their children will have children and so on and so forth.  A gay couple can never ever have children without scientific intervention!!!!  Jon you will never have a child with your husband.  That is what the mormons are fighting for.  They are pro life.  Colonies of gay men or gay women will only last as long as the oldest person living.  There joy ends in their partner and will never continue through the child they make with their partner because two gay people cannot have a child that carries both of their blood.  That is what they are fighting for Jon, their own family.  Just like you are.  Except when their mom and dad die the family will not end it iwill live on through their children.</p>
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