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	<title>Comments on: Cover Up: Mormon Church Reveals $190k in Previously Unreported Prop 8 Expenditures</title>
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	<link>http://www.pensitoreview.com/2009/01/31/lds-reveals-190k-in-prop-8-expenditures/</link>
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		<title>By: Jeff Phillips</title>
		<link>http://www.pensitoreview.com/2009/01/31/lds-reveals-190k-in-prop-8-expenditures/comment-page-1/#comment-705699</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Phillips</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 06:07:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pensitoreview.com/2009/01/31/lds-reveals-190k-in-prop-8-expenditures/#comment-705699</guid>
		<description>The $20 million (half of $40 million of proposal 8&#039;s budget) came from individual members of the church contributing -- albiet muchly in response to the church&#039;s own campaign. However the church certainly in no way gave a $20 million check to the proposal 8 budget. 

$190,000 was initially unreported, probably because the break down of those sorts of expenses fell into categories that the church leaders in those various rolls commonly incur anyway -- travel expenses, etc. etc. for activities typically unrelated to Proposal 8. Where does the $190,000 figure come from, the accusator or the defendant organization? Once the church had been pointed out that various expenses hadn&#039;t been counted in their report, they responded with a corrected report. 

I would guess that the reported expenses are more substantial than the omitted expenses, but I doubt the church&#039;s direct contribution in terms of its own campaigning would be over $1 million... Probably short of half a million more likely. But even if it were a full million in direct expenses the church incurred, that would still only be 1million/13billion = .0000769 % of their total bottom line. I am quite certain the IRS would not consider this to be a substantial concern.

But even if they did, the church&#039;s position on gay marriage is so important to its core beliefs that I believe the church would  be willing to give up its tax exempt status and actually be willing to pay taxes if it absolutely had to in order to continue its fight on gay marriage. 


And for the record, I&#039;m gay, and I&#039;m mormon... and I see nothing wrong with the church for its position on proposal 8, although it may not be the same as my own. It has a purpose in what it is, just as I have a purpose in who I am.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The $20 million (half of $40 million of proposal 8&#8217;s budget) came from individual members of the church contributing &#8212; albiet muchly in response to the church&#8217;s own campaign. However the church certainly in no way gave a $20 million check to the proposal 8 budget. </p>
<p>$190,000 was initially unreported, probably because the break down of those sorts of expenses fell into categories that the church leaders in those various rolls commonly incur anyway &#8212; travel expenses, etc. etc. for activities typically unrelated to Proposal 8. Where does the $190,000 figure come from, the accusator or the defendant organization? Once the church had been pointed out that various expenses hadn&#8217;t been counted in their report, they responded with a corrected report. </p>
<p>I would guess that the reported expenses are more substantial than the omitted expenses, but I doubt the church&#8217;s direct contribution in terms of its own campaigning would be over $1 million&#8230; Probably short of half a million more likely. But even if it were a full million in direct expenses the church incurred, that would still only be 1million/13billion = .0000769 % of their total bottom line. I am quite certain the IRS would not consider this to be a substantial concern.</p>
<p>But even if they did, the church&#8217;s position on gay marriage is so important to its core beliefs that I believe the church would  be willing to give up its tax exempt status and actually be willing to pay taxes if it absolutely had to in order to continue its fight on gay marriage. </p>
<p>And for the record, I&#8217;m gay, and I&#8217;m mormon&#8230; and I see nothing wrong with the church for its position on proposal 8, although it may not be the same as my own. It has a purpose in what it is, just as I have a purpose in who I am.</p>
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		<title>By: Confused, Please help me understand. - QueerUK - Gay Forum &#124; Gay Guide &#124; Gay Community</title>
		<link>http://www.pensitoreview.com/2009/01/31/lds-reveals-190k-in-prop-8-expenditures/comment-page-1/#comment-659530</link>
		<dc:creator>Confused, Please help me understand. - QueerUK - Gay Forum &#124; Gay Guide &#124; Gay Community</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Feb 2009 22:13:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pensitoreview.com/2009/01/31/lds-reveals-190k-in-prop-8-expenditures/#comment-659530</guid>
		<description>[...] face flak for backing Prop. 8 Mormons Stole Our Rights: No Tax Exemption for Political Churches Pensito Review Cover Up: Mormon Church Reveals $190k in Previously Unreported Prop 8 Expenditures   __________________ I&#039;d rather be hated for who I am than loved for who I&#039;m not     Last edited by [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] face flak for backing Prop. 8 Mormons Stole Our Rights: No Tax Exemption for Political Churches Pensito Review Cover Up: Mormon Church Reveals $190k in Previously Unreported Prop 8 Expenditures   __________________ I&#8217;d rather be hated for who I am than loved for who I&#8217;m not     Last edited by [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Confused, Please help me understand. - QueerUK - Gay Forum &#124; Gay Guide &#124; Gay Community</title>
		<link>http://www.pensitoreview.com/2009/01/31/lds-reveals-190k-in-prop-8-expenditures/comment-page-1/#comment-659528</link>
		<dc:creator>Confused, Please help me understand. - QueerUK - Gay Forum &#124; Gay Guide &#124; Gay Community</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Feb 2009 22:06:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pensitoreview.com/2009/01/31/lds-reveals-190k-in-prop-8-expenditures/#comment-659528</guid>
		<description>[...] comes up with the following:  Mormons Stole Our Rights: No Tax Exemption for Political Churches Pensito Review Cover Up: Mormon Church Reveals $190k in Previously Unreported Prop 8 Expenditures   __________________ I&#039;d rather be hated for who I am than loved for who I&#039;m [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] comes up with the following:  Mormons Stole Our Rights: No Tax Exemption for Political Churches Pensito Review Cover Up: Mormon Church Reveals $190k in Previously Unreported Prop 8 Expenditures   __________________ I&#8217;d rather be hated for who I am than loved for who I&#8217;m [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Garryinnola</title>
		<link>http://www.pensitoreview.com/2009/01/31/lds-reveals-190k-in-prop-8-expenditures/comment-page-1/#comment-656459</link>
		<dc:creator>Garryinnola</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 17:43:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pensitoreview.com/2009/01/31/lds-reveals-190k-in-prop-8-expenditures/#comment-656459</guid>
		<description>In my opinion no church or religious organization should be allowed to lobby at all. They may influence their members or have whatever rules and regulations they choose internally but when they start trying to change the &lt;i&gt;law&lt;/i&gt; in a given political juristiction or nationwide, they should be prohibited from doing that or lose their tax-exempt status. Ditto for campaigning for candidates or political parties. In my opinion, the IRS code is far too lenient.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my opinion no church or religious organization should be allowed to lobby at all. They may influence their members or have whatever rules and regulations they choose internally but when they start trying to change the <i>law</i> in a given political juristiction or nationwide, they should be prohibited from doing that or lose their tax-exempt status. Ditto for campaigning for candidates or political parties. In my opinion, the IRS code is far too lenient.</p>
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		<title>By: Laurie Allen</title>
		<link>http://www.pensitoreview.com/2009/01/31/lds-reveals-190k-in-prop-8-expenditures/comment-page-1/#comment-655812</link>
		<dc:creator>Laurie Allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jan 2009 22:58:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pensitoreview.com/2009/01/31/lds-reveals-190k-in-prop-8-expenditures/#comment-655812</guid>
		<description>Watch this clip if you want to see how shameless Mormons ignore slavery in Utah.

http://www.bankingonheaven.com/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Watch this clip if you want to see how shameless Mormons ignore slavery in Utah.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.bankingonheaven.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.bankingonheaven.com/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Laurie Allen</title>
		<link>http://www.pensitoreview.com/2009/01/31/lds-reveals-190k-in-prop-8-expenditures/comment-page-1/#comment-655809</link>
		<dc:creator>Laurie Allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jan 2009 22:56:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pensitoreview.com/2009/01/31/lds-reveals-190k-in-prop-8-expenditures/#comment-655809</guid>
		<description>Mormons spend 20 million fighting gay marriage and NOTHING to stop polygamy in Utah.

Shame on the Mormons!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mormons spend 20 million fighting gay marriage and NOTHING to stop polygamy in Utah.</p>
<p>Shame on the Mormons!!!</p>
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		<title>By: allthetime</title>
		<link>http://www.pensitoreview.com/2009/01/31/lds-reveals-190k-in-prop-8-expenditures/comment-page-1/#comment-655766</link>
		<dc:creator>allthetime</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jan 2009 19:35:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pensitoreview.com/2009/01/31/lds-reveals-190k-in-prop-8-expenditures/#comment-655766</guid>
		<description>In reply to kd5jos,

You didn&#039;t read it correctly.  The amount you mention is only the UNREPORTED amount recently disclosed.  THAT simply adds to the strengh of the lawsuit against the Mormons.

Later it reads:

&quot;At their leadersâ€™ behest, Mormon contributions made up about half Prop 8â€™s budget of $40 million.&quot;  So they spent $20 MILLION!

That brings it to .0015% Still doesn&#039;t seem like much, but is substantially larger.  And no where does anything state that to calculate substantial activity, you have to compare the amount donated to a single issue to the organizations total net worth.

The court would have to consider that in this case, they donated a full 50% of a very large budget.  Making their activities VERY substantial for this highly charged issue.  It should be enough to knock them around a bit, if laws were fairly enforced.  But I&#039;m sure that the Reich-Wing will jump to the defense of the ones responsible for beating down one of their favorite whipping posts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to kd5jos,</p>
<p>You didn&#8217;t read it correctly.  The amount you mention is only the UNREPORTED amount recently disclosed.  THAT simply adds to the strengh of the lawsuit against the Mormons.</p>
<p>Later it reads:</p>
<p>&#8220;At their leadersâ€™ behest, Mormon contributions made up about half Prop 8â€™s budget of $40 million.&#8221;  So they spent $20 MILLION!</p>
<p>That brings it to .0015% Still doesn&#8217;t seem like much, but is substantially larger.  And no where does anything state that to calculate substantial activity, you have to compare the amount donated to a single issue to the organizations total net worth.</p>
<p>The court would have to consider that in this case, they donated a full 50% of a very large budget.  Making their activities VERY substantial for this highly charged issue.  It should be enough to knock them around a bit, if laws were fairly enforced.  But I&#8217;m sure that the Reich-Wing will jump to the defense of the ones responsible for beating down one of their favorite whipping posts.</p>
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		<title>By: Madison</title>
		<link>http://www.pensitoreview.com/2009/01/31/lds-reveals-190k-in-prop-8-expenditures/comment-page-1/#comment-655744</link>
		<dc:creator>Madison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jan 2009 18:15:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pensitoreview.com/2009/01/31/lds-reveals-190k-in-prop-8-expenditures/#comment-655744</guid>
		<description>kd5jos, Expenditures do not qualify as anybody&#039;s definition of &quot;activities.&quot; 

Bush tried to yank the nonprofit status of a church in Pasadena in 2004 because a pastor gave one (1) antiwar sermon. The Mormons planned and executed part of a $40 million political campaign in their Salt Lake City headquarters. 

However, you are right that nothing whatsoever will come from this. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>kd5jos, Expenditures do not qualify as anybody&#8217;s definition of &#8220;activities.&#8221; </p>
<p>Bush tried to yank the nonprofit status of a church in Pasadena in 2004 because a pastor gave one (1) antiwar sermon. The Mormons planned and executed part of a $40 million political campaign in their Salt Lake City headquarters. </p>
<p>However, you are right that nothing whatsoever will come from this.</p>
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		<title>By: nikolai</title>
		<link>http://www.pensitoreview.com/2009/01/31/lds-reveals-190k-in-prop-8-expenditures/comment-page-1/#comment-655738</link>
		<dc:creator>nikolai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jan 2009 18:00:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pensitoreview.com/2009/01/31/lds-reveals-190k-in-prop-8-expenditures/#comment-655738</guid>
		<description>GASP! You mean these good Mormons didn&#039;t work GRATIS???

May their thro*ts be slit from e*r to e*r!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GASP! You mean these good Mormons didn&#8217;t work GRATIS???</p>
<p>May their thro*ts be slit from e*r to e*r!</p>
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		<title>By: kd5jos</title>
		<link>http://www.pensitoreview.com/2009/01/31/lds-reveals-190k-in-prop-8-expenditures/comment-page-1/#comment-655727</link>
		<dc:creator>kd5jos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jan 2009 17:23:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pensitoreview.com/2009/01/31/lds-reveals-190k-in-prop-8-expenditures/#comment-655727</guid>
		<description>&quot;if a substantial part of its activities is attempting to influence legislation&quot;

&quot;holdings said to be worth at least $13 billion&quot;

&quot;$20,575 for use of facilities and equipment at the churchâ€™s Salt Lake City headquarters and a $96,849 charge for â€œcompensated staff time&quot;

117,000/13,000,000,000 = .0009%

&quot;An IRC section 501(c)(3) organization may engage in some lobbying, but too much lobbying activity risks loss of tax-exempt status.&quot;

I have a hard time believing this qualifies as anybodies definition of substantial.  They probably broke the law by not reporting it.  That was stupid on their part.  They&#039;ll probably be fined as that&#039;s the easy way to deal with a first time minor infraction.  If there is more to this though, this opinion will change based on the magnitude of the infraction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;if a substantial part of its activities is attempting to influence legislation&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;holdings said to be worth at least $13 billion&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;$20,575 for use of facilities and equipment at the churchâ€™s Salt Lake City headquarters and a $96,849 charge for â€œcompensated staff time&#8221;</p>
<p>117,000/13,000,000,000 = .0009%</p>
<p>&#8220;An IRC section 501(c)(3) organization may engage in some lobbying, but too much lobbying activity risks loss of tax-exempt status.&#8221;</p>
<p>I have a hard time believing this qualifies as anybodies definition of substantial.  They probably broke the law by not reporting it.  That was stupid on their part.  They&#8217;ll probably be fined as that&#8217;s the easy way to deal with a first time minor infraction.  If there is more to this though, this opinion will change based on the magnitude of the infraction.</p>
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