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	<title>Comments on: Turkeys Voting for Thanksgiving &#8211; Why Do Americans Regularly Vote Against Their Own Self-Interests?</title>
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	<link>http://www.pensitoreview.com/2010/01/31/turkeys-voting-for-thanksgiving-why-do-americans-vote-against-their-own-self-interests/</link>
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		<title>By: Trish Ponder</title>
		<link>http://www.pensitoreview.com/2010/01/31/turkeys-voting-for-thanksgiving-why-do-americans-vote-against-their-own-self-interests/comment-page-1/#comment-733713</link>
		<dc:creator>Trish Ponder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Sep 2011 01:39:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pensitoreview.com/?p=11462#comment-733713</guid>
		<description>BT33blue, you need to read this: http://blog.reidreport.com/2011/07/myth-of-progressive-majority/#more-25751. You will find it is a myth perpetuated by some on the left that Obama squandered a majority that was never there. 

It requires 60 senators to defeat a filibuster (which Mitch McConnell promised on EVERY vote), and of the 56 Democrats and 2 Independents who caucused together when Obama took office (Al Franken&#039;s seat was months being decided, as was Obama&#039;s own Illinois seat), 17 were folks like Ben Nelson of Nebraska, Kay Hagan of North Carolina, and Blanche Lincoln of Arkansas, who represented red states and often voted accordingly. Some, like Jim Webb and Evan Bayh, soon left the Senate, and Robert Byrd and Ted Kennedy only made targeted votes due to failing health. 

Read the whole post, but I think you need to re-think your philosophy toward Obama. If folks like you had his back, he would have a whole lot easier time pleasing you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BT33blue, you need to read this: <a href="http://blog.reidreport.com/2011/07/myth-of-progressive-majority/#more-25751" rel="nofollow">http://blog.reidreport.com/2011/07/myth-of-progressive-majority/#more-25751</a>. You will find it is a myth perpetuated by some on the left that Obama squandered a majority that was never there. </p>
<p>It requires 60 senators to defeat a filibuster (which Mitch McConnell promised on EVERY vote), and of the 56 Democrats and 2 Independents who caucused together when Obama took office (Al Franken&#8217;s seat was months being decided, as was Obama&#8217;s own Illinois seat), 17 were folks like Ben Nelson of Nebraska, Kay Hagan of North Carolina, and Blanche Lincoln of Arkansas, who represented red states and often voted accordingly. Some, like Jim Webb and Evan Bayh, soon left the Senate, and Robert Byrd and Ted Kennedy only made targeted votes due to failing health. </p>
<p>Read the whole post, but I think you need to re-think your philosophy toward Obama. If folks like you had his back, he would have a whole lot easier time pleasing you.</p>
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		<title>By: BT33blue</title>
		<link>http://www.pensitoreview.com/2010/01/31/turkeys-voting-for-thanksgiving-why-do-americans-vote-against-their-own-self-interests/comment-page-1/#comment-733710</link>
		<dc:creator>BT33blue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Sep 2011 00:41:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pensitoreview.com/?p=11462#comment-733710</guid>
		<description>I couldn’t agree more with Jon Ponder’s musings.  He takes the rhetorical gloves off and doesn’t mince words.  There is a class war going on in this country, with the resultant wealth inequality at levels not seen since the 1920’s.  This war, the elephant in the room when it comes to all political discussions about the economy, has been successfully waged against the majority of the populace for decades by the wealthy and their willing minions among both Democrats and Republicans.  While Republicans are most obviously the water-carriers and odious apologists for the highly class-conscious wealthy, it is the Democrats who serve a more insidious purpose:  to emasculate any potential mass movement for genuine reform by the majority of the populace – the very people for whom the Democrats are supposed to speak.

While this failure of the Democrats to be the vehicle of true reform is galling enough, it is mind-boggling in the extreme that people of modest economic means can get bamboozled into supporting faux-reform movements like the Tea Party, which is bankrolled by the right-wing Koch Brothers, zealots for unbridled capitalism.

Don’t look to our current Capitulator-in-Chief, President Obama, for any answers.  He’s to the right of Richard Nixon on issues like strengthening the EPA’s clean air standards or understanding the value of Keynesian economics when there is a lack of demand in the economy.  Obama, as commentator Christopher Hedges rightly noted, is “a disaster” for his liberal base in the Democratic party, someone “who speaks in the traditional language of liberalism but [who] has made war against the core values of liberalism, which is a concern for those people outside the narrow power elite.”  Obama and the feckless Democrats who squandered their majorities in both houses of Congress have managed to empower the avowed enemies of middle class, working class, and poor people (i.e., the vast majority of the populace) by appeasing and compromising at every turn with these enemies, seeking their support when they should have fought against them.  It’s an old story by now, well documented by many political observers.  Obama and his band of spineless Democrats have set back the cause of progressive politics for at least a generation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I couldn’t agree more with Jon Ponder’s musings.  He takes the rhetorical gloves off and doesn’t mince words.  There is a class war going on in this country, with the resultant wealth inequality at levels not seen since the 1920’s.  This war, the elephant in the room when it comes to all political discussions about the economy, has been successfully waged against the majority of the populace for decades by the wealthy and their willing minions among both Democrats and Republicans.  While Republicans are most obviously the water-carriers and odious apologists for the highly class-conscious wealthy, it is the Democrats who serve a more insidious purpose:  to emasculate any potential mass movement for genuine reform by the majority of the populace – the very people for whom the Democrats are supposed to speak.</p>
<p>While this failure of the Democrats to be the vehicle of true reform is galling enough, it is mind-boggling in the extreme that people of modest economic means can get bamboozled into supporting faux-reform movements like the Tea Party, which is bankrolled by the right-wing Koch Brothers, zealots for unbridled capitalism.</p>
<p>Don’t look to our current Capitulator-in-Chief, President Obama, for any answers.  He’s to the right of Richard Nixon on issues like strengthening the EPA’s clean air standards or understanding the value of Keynesian economics when there is a lack of demand in the economy.  Obama, as commentator Christopher Hedges rightly noted, is “a disaster” for his liberal base in the Democratic party, someone “who speaks in the traditional language of liberalism but [who] has made war against the core values of liberalism, which is a concern for those people outside the narrow power elite.”  Obama and the feckless Democrats who squandered their majorities in both houses of Congress have managed to empower the avowed enemies of middle class, working class, and poor people (i.e., the vast majority of the populace) by appeasing and compromising at every turn with these enemies, seeking their support when they should have fought against them.  It’s an old story by now, well documented by many political observers.  Obama and his band of spineless Democrats have set back the cause of progressive politics for at least a generation.</p>
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		<title>By: Dale662</title>
		<link>http://www.pensitoreview.com/2010/01/31/turkeys-voting-for-thanksgiving-why-do-americans-vote-against-their-own-self-interests/comment-page-1/#comment-707793</link>
		<dc:creator>Dale662</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 04:05:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pensitoreview.com/?p=11462#comment-707793</guid>
		<description>Franklin chose the _wild_ turkey as his choice for the national bird, because that is one smart cookie. It wasn&#039;t until corporate farming bred them for bigger and heavier meat that they also dumbed them down.  Sort of like what they&#039;re doing to the rest of us today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Franklin chose the _wild_ turkey as his choice for the national bird, because that is one smart cookie. It wasn&#8217;t until corporate farming bred them for bigger and heavier meat that they also dumbed them down.  Sort of like what they&#8217;re doing to the rest of us today.</p>
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		<title>By: peggy pierce</title>
		<link>http://www.pensitoreview.com/2010/01/31/turkeys-voting-for-thanksgiving-why-do-americans-vote-against-their-own-self-interests/comment-page-1/#comment-707661</link>
		<dc:creator>peggy pierce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 01:13:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pensitoreview.com/?p=11462#comment-707661</guid>
		<description>I for one do not believe the Tea Party speaks for anyone in this country who are struggling to make ends meet and worry how they are going to pay for their kids college education. It makes make ill to hear Sarah Palin claim so much to care about the average joe when I can&#039;t help but feel her only agenda is lining her pockets. I think there needs to be an anti-tea party, one that actually cares about this country and it&#039;s future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I for one do not believe the Tea Party speaks for anyone in this country who are struggling to make ends meet and worry how they are going to pay for their kids college education. It makes make ill to hear Sarah Palin claim so much to care about the average joe when I can&#8217;t help but feel her only agenda is lining her pockets. I think there needs to be an anti-tea party, one that actually cares about this country and it&#8217;s future.</p>
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		<title>By: Nikolai</title>
		<link>http://www.pensitoreview.com/2010/01/31/turkeys-voting-for-thanksgiving-why-do-americans-vote-against-their-own-self-interests/comment-page-1/#comment-707026</link>
		<dc:creator>Nikolai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 22:09:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pensitoreview.com/?p=11462#comment-707026</guid>
		<description>Nelson, Nelson, Nelson...

Firstly, turkeys don&#039;t drown when it rains, that&#039;s a myth. Check Snopes and see for yourself.

Secondly, the blue-collar comedy porn bit you quoted is from Ron White, not Larry the Cable Guy .

I can tell you&#039;re NOT a good &#039;ol boy! (Probably an intellectual snob  liberal...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nelson, Nelson, Nelson&#8230;</p>
<p>Firstly, turkeys don&#8217;t drown when it rains, that&#8217;s a myth. Check Snopes and see for yourself.</p>
<p>Secondly, the blue-collar comedy porn bit you quoted is from Ron White, not Larry the Cable Guy .</p>
<p>I can tell you&#8217;re NOT a good &#8216;ol boy! (Probably an intellectual snob  liberal&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: Nelson Johnson</title>
		<link>http://www.pensitoreview.com/2010/01/31/turkeys-voting-for-thanksgiving-why-do-americans-vote-against-their-own-self-interests/comment-page-1/#comment-707022</link>
		<dc:creator>Nelson Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 19:08:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pensitoreview.com/?p=11462#comment-707022</guid>
		<description>Turkeys are famous for drowning on rainy days.  They point their beaks to the sky and swallow water until they drown.  Benjamin Franklin wanted the national bird to be the turkey, not the eagle.  He knew a lot about human nature.

Knowing about human nature, then, we should know how to deal with turkeys.  On a rainy day you need to keep them in the coop.  You do that by attracting them with food and approval.  Well fed turkeys will love you, and will not drown.

You need to be down-home and play simple-minded if you want the majority to listen to you, not like what I am writing now.  I am an intellectual snob.

The problem is that people like me need to dumb down the tone.  A &quot;preachy&quot; tone is guaranteed to fail, and Obama has that tone, bless him.  If you want the turkeys to love you, you need to appeal to their sense of being included; being like a popular comedian &quot;Larry the Cable Guy&quot;, who subtly suggests that he can&#039;t understand why people hate gays, while seeming to endorse anti-gay rhetoric.  The message is delivered by appealing to the sense of fairness while pretending to share the bigotry.  

If &quot;Larry&quot; were to preach about how it&#039;s OK to be gay the audience would start launching tomatoes, but by making low-key statements to the effect that he doesn&#039;t get why people hate gays, and massaging his identity as &quot;one of us&quot; he gets the core message across without offending anyone.  He teaches without being condescending.

Playing the bigot, yet voicing the absurdity, is best illustrated by a joke he tells:  &quot;This guy says he hates gays.  So I ask him if he likes pornography.  He says &#039;Hell yes!&#039;.  Well, do you like pornography with women only?  &#039;No, I like to watch men and women having sex.&#039;  Well, do you like to see the men with small d**ks?  &#039;Hell no!  I like to see huge, throbbing c**ks!&#039;&quot;

See the difference?  The turkeys love him, and they learn some progressive values painlessly.  We progressives need to understand this.  It is snobbish and boastful to lecture people, especially those who are in great fear, and will reject any message that is focused on the pedantic.  We are &quot;one of them&quot; and they are &quot;one of us.&quot;  We are all in this boat together!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Turkeys are famous for drowning on rainy days.  They point their beaks to the sky and swallow water until they drown.  Benjamin Franklin wanted the national bird to be the turkey, not the eagle.  He knew a lot about human nature.</p>
<p>Knowing about human nature, then, we should know how to deal with turkeys.  On a rainy day you need to keep them in the coop.  You do that by attracting them with food and approval.  Well fed turkeys will love you, and will not drown.</p>
<p>You need to be down-home and play simple-minded if you want the majority to listen to you, not like what I am writing now.  I am an intellectual snob.</p>
<p>The problem is that people like me need to dumb down the tone.  A &#8220;preachy&#8221; tone is guaranteed to fail, and Obama has that tone, bless him.  If you want the turkeys to love you, you need to appeal to their sense of being included; being like a popular comedian &#8220;Larry the Cable Guy&#8221;, who subtly suggests that he can&#8217;t understand why people hate gays, while seeming to endorse anti-gay rhetoric.  The message is delivered by appealing to the sense of fairness while pretending to share the bigotry.  </p>
<p>If &#8220;Larry&#8221; were to preach about how it&#8217;s OK to be gay the audience would start launching tomatoes, but by making low-key statements to the effect that he doesn&#8217;t get why people hate gays, and massaging his identity as &#8220;one of us&#8221; he gets the core message across without offending anyone.  He teaches without being condescending.</p>
<p>Playing the bigot, yet voicing the absurdity, is best illustrated by a joke he tells:  &#8220;This guy says he hates gays.  So I ask him if he likes pornography.  He says &#8216;Hell yes!&#8217;.  Well, do you like pornography with women only?  &#8216;No, I like to watch men and women having sex.&#8217;  Well, do you like to see the men with small d**ks?  &#8216;Hell no!  I like to see huge, throbbing c**ks!&#8217;&#8221;</p>
<p>See the difference?  The turkeys love him, and they learn some progressive values painlessly.  We progressives need to understand this.  It is snobbish and boastful to lecture people, especially those who are in great fear, and will reject any message that is focused on the pedantic.  We are &#8220;one of them&#8221; and they are &#8220;one of us.&#8221;  We are all in this boat together!</p>
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		<title>By: majii</title>
		<link>http://www.pensitoreview.com/2010/01/31/turkeys-voting-for-thanksgiving-why-do-americans-vote-against-their-own-self-interests/comment-page-1/#comment-707015</link>
		<dc:creator>majii</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 01:43:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pensitoreview.com/?p=11462#comment-707015</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s a shame that if you want to know what is going on in your own country, you have to read it in a foreign news source, but that is exactly what I do.  The BBC article nails it.  The MSM in America is, for the most part, an appendage of the Republican Party.  I remember watching actual news broadcasts done by Murrow and Cronkite, and the &quot;reporting&quot; that is being served to the American public today is mostly propaganda and opinion, with little hard news content.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a shame that if you want to know what is going on in your own country, you have to read it in a foreign news source, but that is exactly what I do.  The BBC article nails it.  The MSM in America is, for the most part, an appendage of the Republican Party.  I remember watching actual news broadcasts done by Murrow and Cronkite, and the &#8220;reporting&#8221; that is being served to the American public today is mostly propaganda and opinion, with little hard news content.</p>
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		<title>By: Nikolai</title>
		<link>http://www.pensitoreview.com/2010/01/31/turkeys-voting-for-thanksgiving-why-do-americans-vote-against-their-own-self-interests/comment-page-1/#comment-707007</link>
		<dc:creator>Nikolai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2010 18:45:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pensitoreview.com/?p=11462#comment-707007</guid>
		<description>&quot;They do it because they resent having their interests decided for them by politicians who think they know best.&quot;

Like my momma used to say,

&quot;You&#039;re cutting off your  nose to spite your face.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;They do it because they resent having their interests decided for them by politicians who think they know best.&#8221;</p>
<p>Like my momma used to say,</p>
<p>&#8220;You&#8217;re cutting off your  nose to spite your face.&#8221;</p>
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